botulism in flavoured oil

Reading some seriously conflicting resources on botulism in flavoured oils

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Flavored oils should be made fresh. Botulism can grow within the materials added to the oil, assisted by the oxygen free environment.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is why you should always keep a plentiful supply of rats running around the house. You can catch one and feed it anything you suspect of being contaminated with botulism, and if it dies horribly then you can throw out the stuff.

      >Flavored oils should be made fresh.
      That kind of destroys the purpose of having the oil leech the flavor out of whatever you put in it.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous
  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Commercially available oils flavored with garlic and herbs either have been acidified to prevent the growth of bacteria or they contain specific levels of microbial inhibitors.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't even want to write a list of all the stupid theories I've heard about this.
    They range from people who think the oil is a preservative, to people who think of what you put into the oil isn't perishable then the product isn't perishable, to people who say the oil actually prevents proper sterilisation.

    So naturally I read the official state health department manuals, from several states no less. No consistence, too cowardly to even give clear guidance.

    So what the frick is my personal view worth? Basically nothing.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's particularly dangerous for certain ingredients like garlic which can contain botulism spores to begin with. Botulism doesn't grow in an environment with oxygen, but once you cover the garlic in oil it can grow uninhibited.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'm concerned that
      1. A can't exclude the spores totally
      2. Can't acidify the ingredients prior to putting them in the oil without introducing moisture
      3. Whatever goes in the jar will distribute, so there's a risk of things floating to the top, moisture sinking to the bottom, air pockets
      4. The oil frustrates acidity buffering
      5. Pressure caning the oil might be the solution, but I'm not sure if you can even pressure can an oil

      That's what I found too so I just gave up on it. I'm not risking being paralyzed in a hospital bed with tubes down my throat for weeks just to have some flavored oil.

      Also even without apparent submerged solids (e.g. visible pieces of herbs, garlic, whatever) there's no guarantee there aren't tiny pieces invisible to the eye on which botulinum can grow, and since it's so potent not much is needed to cause problems.

      TLDR frick it, not worth the paranoia and especially not worth the risk.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >what you put into the oil isn't perishable then the product isn't perishable
      why is it?

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm concerned that
    1. A can't exclude the spores totally
    2. Can't acidify the ingredients prior to putting them in the oil without introducing moisture
    3. Whatever goes in the jar will distribute, so there's a risk of things floating to the top, moisture sinking to the bottom, air pockets
    4. The oil frustrates acidity buffering
    5. Pressure caning the oil might be the solution, but I'm not sure if you can even pressure can an oil

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >5. Pressure caning the oil might be the solution, but I'm not sure if you can even pressure can an oil
      Sure, why not? You don't even need to pressure can it, you can just heat the oil on the stovetop. You can get an oil bath up to 200C (400F). Botulism spores won't survive that, period.

      Of course, whatever you put in that oil while heating it is going to fry, but still.

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I make hemp flavoured oil every year because the plants grow from my birdfeed.
    I don't smoke the stuff but I like the smell and taste.
    It does not get me high and I have not caught botulism so far.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >so far
      This isn't really a good argument for it being safe. You've been lucky.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I haven't died from drinking tap water or sleeping in a bed so far.
        What's your point, moron?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          neither of those have high potential to expose you to botulinum toxin kek, what's your point?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >I haven't died from...so far.
          Blah blah blah shut the frick up. That's not the point. The point is your health and intelligence is still deteriorating and you're aging faster by being exposed to XYZ. And if you live to an old age, or sooner...boom; it hits you and you suffer the rest of your miserable life.

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If the oil flavoring is dry, there's zero risk. Stick to that. Or infuse your oil, remove solids then cook it to denature the botulic toxin (a bit silly with quality oil). Or, ultimately, make sure your wet flavoring's pH is below 4.7 if you can.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >If the oil flavoring is dry, there's zero risk.
      Yore wrong. Zero dryness can only be achieved in a vacuum in space.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        "Dry" as in not enough relative humidity to grow bacteria, moron.

        I've got chili oil and garlic oil in my pantry. I heated them both while making them so I wonder if that's enough to sterilize them initially. I think that'd be all that's necessary, since I doubt any wild botulism spores are floating around my kitchen

        [...]
        Women can achieve absolute dryness in the presence of your lame ass

        >I wonder if that's enough to sterilize them initially
        It's not, you'd have to pressure cook in a scealed container for that.
        >since I doubt any wild botulism spores are floating around my kitchen
        I shiggy diggy

        It's interesting how such a simple question can tell appart those who have food safety basics from the npc home cooks.

        It's absolutely not an option, the source is his ass.
        [...]
        Fine to eat or fine to bottle? The issue is the botulism entering as a contaminant then growing in the jar.

        Usually products that underwent anaerobic fermentation would pressurise the jar and look foul; but not so with oil.
        So storing things in oil presents risks that are very difficult to mitigate, which is why I made the thread

        >It's absolutely not an option, the source is his ass.
        I wouldn't base a product on that, but since C. Botulinum does'nt grow in oil, if I infuse oil with, say, fresh garlic for a month, filter all solid particle and decantate any water at the bottom, and then properly pasteurize the oil, wouldn't it be theoretially safe? I'd stick to dry or properly lactofermented products personally.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >denature the botulic toxin
      interesting, didn't realize this was an option.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Botulinum toxins are large, easily denatured proteins, and toxins exposed to sunlight are inactivated within a few hours. They can also be destroyed by treating with 0.1% sodium hypochlorite or 0.1 N NaOH, or by heating to 80°C (176°F) for 20 minutes or > 85°C (185°F) for at least 5 minutes.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you can also inject it into your face

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          what if I inject my dick with it

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Super Sperm!

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's absolutely not an option, the source is his ass.

        however, chili oil where you fry stuff in the oil is fine, right?

        Fine to eat or fine to bottle? The issue is the botulism entering as a contaminant then growing in the jar.

        Usually products that underwent anaerobic fermentation would pressurise the jar and look foul; but not so with oil.
        So storing things in oil presents risks that are very difficult to mitigate, which is why I made the thread

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          you can absolutely destroy botulism toxin by boiling and you can kill the spores entirely by pressure cooking, frying, or baking. You can even trick the bacteria into coming out of spore form by feeding it and then boil it while it's vulnerable.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >absolutely
            Friend I hate to keep repeating myself, but this kind of naive attitude is why lockjaw still exists.

            The usual problem;
            >boiled product, destroy toxins
            >fail to destroy spores because boiling isn't hot enough
            >pressure can the boiled product
            >one part of one jar doesn't reach the correct temperature
            >but it's still canned in an anaerobic environment
            >the contents of the jar aren't sufficiently saline/ acidic because you were so sure the temperature would "absolutely" kill the toxin.

            Common canning failure might look like overloading the canner, insufficient water, jar floats so isn't submerged, faulty thermometer, jars too large to reach internal temperature, canning process interrupted then restarted, trying to can something that the canning medium can't penetrate like a whole wallnut, a black cardamom, a stick, a whole potato.
            It absolutely happens, and if you can enough products it will happen eventually. A single state sterilising process is irresponsible

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              that's why you're supposed to boil home canned products before eating, in case botulism grew in it. If you boil something long enough there is a 99.9% certainty that even the deepest reaches of a potato have reached 100c. It's also unlikely that a jar in a pressure canner wouldn't reach the correct temperature unless serious and irresponsible mistakes were made by the person. In which case it's really not my problem what other people do or eat.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >denature the botulic toxin
      interesting, didn't realize this was an option.

      Botulinum toxins are large, easily denatured proteins, and toxins exposed to sunlight are inactivated within a few hours. They can also be destroyed by treating with 0.1% sodium hypochlorite or 0.1 N NaOH, or by heating to 80°C (176°F) for 20 minutes or > 85°C (185°F) for at least 5 minutes.

      DO NOT do this, this won't work. Botulinum toxin is very easy to destroy wit heat, HOWEVER they will hide inside botulinum spores which are massively more resistant and will then release their toxins in your gut.

      If you want to go the heat route, you need to look at what it takes to kill the spores, not just the toxins.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >If you want to go the heat route
        so is it just a matter of boiling for longer, or it needs to be beyond boiling water temp and therefore isn't viable for water things?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Needs to be above boiling. At least 250 F (with pressure). Not sure if there's a set temperature that works independent of pressure.

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    if it was especially risky you wouldnt see conflicting info. youd see everyone agree, like not eating holly berries

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ideally you're consuming them within a few weeks and using them in cooking as well as serving, but if it's a quick infused homemade thing it's very unlikely you're gonna have botulism. I would cook your infusing ingredients anyway to make them more fragrant and release more essential oils.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I dont get this, you can infuse oils on the go, what is the point in preserving in bottles?
    >inb4 modern man has no time
    Just dont be a wageslave mkay?

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >still not a single reliable source
    >ten more unfounded claims
    Black folk I work in food industry, I'm selling hundreds of bottles of flavoured oil this isn't some stove top frick around.

    I can't get reliable advice from the health department on this, and other commercial manufacturers aren't even consistent in their approach. The risk is not "low" if you don't follow scientific guidelines, it's unquantified. You don't know what the risk is and you're just waiting to see how many people out of a million report being poisoned.

    Some producers add citric acid so any moisture that sinks to the bottom of the jar ends up acidic. Some rely entirely on pasteurisation and are pressure canning their bottles to try and kill botulism spores, some try to acidify their ingredients before putting them in the oil, so like...brining then re-dehydrating.
    Some commercial operators work on the yolo principle that if there's botulism it's the fault of the supplier of primary produce

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Flavored oil has been around for thousands of years, so there should be plenty of data on the subject. How many people have died from eating it? Like a thousand, in five thousand years? That's a low risk.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Historically they blamed witches for botulism, the cause of lock jaw was not known until fairly recently.
        5 out of six people will tell you that Russian roulette is perfectly safe and you won't hear from the sixth neither, a lot of botulism cases are not positively identified.

        So no frickwit is not " low risk" you just don't know how high the risk is

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Flavored oil has been around for thousands of years, so there should be plenty of data on the subject. How many people have died from eating it? Like a thousand, in five thousand years? That's a low risk.

          >Historically they blamed witches for botulism, the cause of lock jaw was not known until fairly recently.
          Which was correct, women calling themselves witches (or warlocks for men) made "potions" which often were basically blends of various stuff. This often included things submerged in oil, which obviously developed botulinum. Didn't take people much to make the connection between the farmer drinking the witch's potion and falling over dead in the field a week later.
          >lockjaw
          Lockjaw isn't botulism, it's tetanus.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Soaking for a day in citric acid is the solution I've seen mentioned. But I did a bunch of research and couldn't find anything that made me feel particularly confident either. I now don't bother with flavored oils.

      This may be a dumb question but wouldn’t the oil be a super hypertonic solution that vegetative bacteria couldn’t survive in?

      The bacteria live in what are effectively "bubbles" within the oil. The oil surrounds any air or water, and doesn't affect the contents. Oil doesn't mix with water, so it isn't part of a "solution".

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The way I see it the issue is as such:
        You can't acidify most dry ingredients, even things they are acidic but just not acidic enough.
        You can't introduce water into the oil in an acidity regulating process.
        You can't salinity oil.
        You can pasteurise and pressure can the oil itself, but this isn't effective if you've got hard ingredients like pepper corns etc.

        So what can you do? Pressure can a mix of essential oils, use some spooky process to acidify a nominal amount of garnish.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >The bacteria live in what are effectively "bubbles" within the oil
        ultrasonic cleaner it is then

        [...]
        >Historically they blamed witches for botulism, the cause of lock jaw was not known until fairly recently.
        Which was correct, women calling themselves witches (or warlocks for men) made "potions" which often were basically blends of various stuff. This often included things submerged in oil, which obviously developed botulinum. Didn't take people much to make the connection between the farmer drinking the witch's potion and falling over dead in the field a week later.
        >lockjaw
        Lockjaw isn't botulism, it's tetanus.

        that makes a lot of sense actually.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Some producers add citric acid so any moisture that sinks to the bottom of the jar ends up acidic.
      Serious question assuming you're for real:

      Why would that even matter? The herbs themselves contain moisture, so if they have botulism spores then they'll be fricked.

      Acids pretty much by definition require water to dissociate into ions, H+ and -whatever, and it's the H+ that absolutely by definition is the "acid" part. No water floating around means no dissociation means you can't acidify OIL.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        How does that change what he's saying? I don't think he's right that anything moist that's added to the jar later will be guaranteed to make contact with the acid, but as long as they make contact it should be fine. If the herbs are in contact with the acid, it will dissociate, because the herbs contain moisture, as you say. The acid just has to be mixed with the additives before putting them into the oil.

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The company I get my flavored oils and vinegars from, they have a very specialized and very expensive machine that...I don't know what the proper word is... sterilizes the mixture or something.

    All I know is, making my own isn't something I want to frick with unless it's used immediately

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    a little botulism never hurt anyone.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    however, chili oil where you fry stuff in the oil is fine, right?

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Isn't it best to boil the flavored oil bottle (once sealed) in a pot for a few minutes to prevent this from happening?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's just regular jaring, and you would NEVER try to treat anything non acidic or oil based in this way. Number one cause of botulism in the US.

      Water isn't hot enough to kill botulism, so you've managed to
      A. Create an anaerobic environment in the jar
      B. Killed any organism that might poison you less than closterinium botulism.
      C. Concealed any visible indicator of the frick up

      Bottling is done at ambient pressure, pressure canning is done under pressure

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This may be a dumb question but wouldn’t the oil be a super hypertonic solution that vegetative bacteria couldn’t survive in?

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Botulism is a myth invented by the liberal media that scare you and prevent you from producing food for your loved ones to keep you dependent on the globohomosexual corporate overlords

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Well hey, I've got ten years worth of unlabled, improperly canned and bottled products from 2000 which my grandma made and you can have them for free

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    bet you won't go to resale shops and buy the old ass bottles full of peppers and stuff and eat them

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why wouldn't you just pressure cook the jar/bottle? You can make literally anything permanently shelf stable with 100% confidence by PCing at 30psi for 90 mins

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      its oil, just heat it to 120c and all spores are dead

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Pressure cook it in what? Water?
      Great way to get water into your pH neutral oil that's full of botulism from inside dry ingredients.

      You can't rely on a single stage sterilisation, because that means a single failure and you've cooked botulism.
      Fundamental understanding of food safety, there is no "chance". You are personally responsible for everything you produce, even if you intend to eat it yourself. In a single stage sterilising process a single frick up from the user and you've 100% got botulism in a single jar. Maybe it's one in a million jars, you're still 100% responsible for the one person you poison.

      Usually this isn't such a big deal because you can observe spoilage, observe contaminated produce, observe improper technique. Not so with botulism, that's why everyone is scared of it

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Pressure cook it in a pressure cooker. In which case, everything inside that PC is fully sterilized and dead. If your jar is properly sealed, water does not go inside. But even if it did, it would be sterile water. Botulism doesn't spontaneously generate inside a jar.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Pressure cook it in a pressure cooker. In which case, everything inside that PC is fully sterilized and dead
          In theory yes, in reality not unless you know for sure how long it takes for everything inside to reach the max temp and how long it has to stay at that temperature to inactivate the spores.

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I make Chili oil with fresh garlic and leave it out on the counter for weeks, though I do fridge it if there's space and I do keep it covered. granted most of the water is cooked out, will let you guys if I ever get botulism.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I've got chili oil and garlic oil in my pantry. I heated them both while making them so I wonder if that's enough to sterilize them initially. I think that'd be all that's necessary, since I doubt any wild botulism spores are floating around my kitchen

      >If the oil flavoring is dry, there's zero risk.
      Yore wrong. Zero dryness can only be achieved in a vacuum in space.

      Women can achieve absolute dryness in the presence of your lame ass

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So is the jar of Sundried tomatoes that's been in the back of my fridge for the past 6 month safe or not?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Assuming commercial product (properly dried tomatoes), no water added inside after opening, I'd say safe and wouldn't worry.

      Gift from Aunt Emma from her summer garden? Not so sure...

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think you could use nitrite (pink curing salt) to kill the germs of the botulism toxin, similar to cured meats and salami which are also high-risk for botulism but are actually fine to eat if you used nitrite to cure it.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      last I check the nitrite amounts used in curing arent good enough for killing anything, its just for taste and presentation

      The google results about botulism only mention pressure cooking, and high acidity that prevents botulism from growing.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I think youre wrong:
        https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0362028X23026856/pdf?md5=49cb719222634a0f7338c032c79664d5&pid=1-s2.0-S0362028X23026856-main.pdf
        >Nitrite plays a major role in the botulinal safety of cured meat products
        >When used at appropriate levels, it morons Clostridium botulinum growth and delays production of its deadly neurotoxin.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          https://www.theguardian.com/food/2019/mar/23/nitrites-ham-bacon-cancer-risk-additives-meat-industry-confidential--report

          >The paper concludes: “The results show that there is no change in levels of inoculated C botulinum over the curing process, which implies that the action of nitrite during curing is not toxic to C botulinum spores at levels of 150ppm [parts per million] ingoing nitrite and below.”

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I'm pretty sure that meat is aerobic as a rule, and the salinity is the buffer. Nitric salt doesn't kill botulism spores or the toxin, but being a salt it inhibits botulism growth just like sugar would.

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >botulism
    >botulism
    >botulism can grow
    >botulism spore
    >botulism walked out the store with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands
    BOTULISM IS A DIAGNOSIS, YOU DAFT Black personMONKEYS

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous
  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    CDC says to keep it refrigerated and consume within 2 days.

    Any other way, you're at high risk.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >CDC says...

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Fine. Do what you want, just don't give it to someone or add to food others will eat.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      bait/8

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You know in my country there is very strong values about food hygiene.
    To poison a guest is as serious as murder even if the guest did not die, for professional chef if they cannot do properly they just refuse to do, even in the middle of service and that's just accepted.

    The very lowest person is someone cooking who does not care about hygiene, they are like a drug person, a dog fricker, bus fapper, very lowest.

    This thread tells me about Americans

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The very lowest person is someone cooking who does not care about hygiene, they are like a drug person, a dog fricker, bus fapper, very lowest.
      sounds like a good system of values

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >very lowest person . . . a dog fricker,
      Excuse me? Nothing wrong with that. Try it some time and see.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm new here. Are females allowed on this board? They weren't back in Culinaly and Culinaly.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          There are no females without breasts and timestamp.
          If you want to see my hairy moobs, you have to pay.

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Who cares? It's either harmless or you die, which isn't your problem.

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Where does botulism in food actually come from?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There's a bacteria called closterinium botulinum, it can survive boiling and is found everywhere in soil.
      When the bacteria grows it produces a toxin that causes paralysis and if untreated death.

      It often kills infants because their digestive system can create an anaerobic environment, it also grows in improperly canned, bottled or packaged food. You have to be very careful about preserving food specifically because of this bacteria

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So you're Googling this shit, and you're getting conflicting results from State as well as national sources? Then because it's all confusing and murky, you decide to come and ask here where literally no one agrees about anything? You're a fricking moron. At least it's not something that could kill you if you get it wrong... Oh wait!

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Everyone is in the same position, national health resources are often propergandic rather than scientific and it seems nobody wants to publish scientific papers for fear of being sued.

      Yet this is something we have to actually deal with on a day to day basis, so I'm hoping that at least one anon has actually studied or has industry experience.

      On a cooking board you would hope that at least one anon was a professional and wasn't.... how you say...a fricking moron.
      I make commercial oil products and it's not like I'm clueless, I'm looking for one other anon who operates at a professional level

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >one anon was a professional
        yes
        >wasn't.... how you say...a fricking moron
        no

  28. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Research performed by the University of Georgia confirmed that mixtures of garlic in oil stored at room temperature are at risk for the development of botulism. Garlic in oil should be made fresh and stored in the refrigerator at 40 °F or lower for no more than 7 days. It may be frozen for several months.

  29. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    CDC:
    >In the United States an average of 110 cases of botulism are reported each year. Of these, approximately 25% are foodborne, 72% are infant botulism, and the rest are wound botulism. >In Alaska, the rates of botulism are the highest of any state in the U.S. Nearly all cases of botulism in Alaska occur among Alaska Natives and result from eating fermented foods such as fermented fish heads, beaver tail or sea mammals.
    So there's about 30 instances a year of foodborne botulism in the US, and in the area it's most common, it's mostly natives storing their food poorly. The Alaskan rate is more than 800x the national average, according to the Atlantic article "How Not to Die of Botulism".

    I don't know how many people prepare their own garlic/flavored oils (I did once, and found out about the risk right after I made it), but given that the US has hundreds of millions of people it seems quite a minimal risk. The few cases that occur must be amongst people that either 1) have no idea botulism exists, or 2) make extraordinarily unwise meal decisions. It seems anyone with the intent of avoiding botulism is going to succeed in 99.99% of cases. Fatality rate is 5%, and again, that's probably far lower for anyone that is knowledgeable enough to know it's a concern as soon as they start to feel bad.

    The bacterium apparently can't grow in acidic or salty conditions, and while adding acid might be tricky, salt shouldn't be. Can't any of the added flavorants be diced (or start small), then liberally coated with salt and added? Might as well add powdered citric acid while you're at it. Just don't "immerse for a while and then remove", or instead you may end up drawing out all of the water instead of pulling salt and acid into the flavorant.
    I don't think a large batch of oil can be permanently sterilized otherwise. Once it's opened and used, new spores can recolonize it. The alternative would be to ONLY use the oil while heating a pan, so the toxin is destroyed before eating.

  30. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There's nothing stopping botulism from growing in a lipid mix like that. Little salts and the pH isn't extreme enough to deter.

  31. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    looks like jars of shit and swamp water used to test lifestraws

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